HELRUNAR INTERVIEW
FOR CONVIVIAL HERMIT MAGAZINE #2
"Hence arises the fact that everything better struggles through only with difficulty, becomes effective, or meets with a hearing, but the absurd and perverse in the realm of thought, the dull and tasteless in the sphere of art, and the wicked and fraudulent in the sphere of action, really assert a supremacy that is disturbed only by brief interruptions." - Arthur Schopenhauer
1. Hello, Skald Draugir. Let's begin this with an introduction of yourself and your role in Helrunar. How long has the band existed, and were the members involved in other projects in the past? With such high quality music, it is difficult to believe that Helrunar is your first band...
Hi! Helrunar exists since spring 2001. My job in our band is to sing, to write the lyrics and some of the composition work is also done by me. Everybody in our band composes his own songs, sometimes we also write a song together. All the members played in other bands before, Alsvartr and Dionysos are also playing in another band today, but this has nothing to do with Helrunar, so it is not neccessary to loose more words about that. Itīs the same with my old band. I sang in a Speed Metal band before, but this is not important anymore. Just the experience I gathered with this band is a positive factor for Helrunar. To make Black- or Pagan Metal was always my greatest desire, but in the small town where I was born this Speed Metal band was the only possibility to make interesting music anyway. So I had to hold back my true musical interests until we gathered to give birth to Helrunar.
2. Please talk a bit of the process of writing and recording Gratr. How long did the entire project take? Is this your first official recording?
Shortly after we founded the band we began to write the first songs. We didnīt rehearse very often, but in spring 2003 we had enough material to record an album, and so we did it. The recordings took terribly long. We started with the drum tracks in January and it took until July until the mix was finished. On the other hand the production was quite cheap. We recorded the whole stuff at a friend of us... he had an analogue studio before but sold all his old stuff to buy new digital equipment. Our album was his first production, so he had to gather experience with his new stuff. He made the offer that we just had to pay a new audio mixer, but we had to accept the long recording time and also help him to rebuild his home... itīs a strange thing if you want to record a Black Metal album but have to help on the building lot before... After everything was recorded in the end of June we went to the Docmaklang studio to finish the mix. We also will record our next album there, because we were very satisfied with the professional work that Matze, the sound engineer there did.
Grátr is our first official recording. The only stuff we recorded before were older versions of "Seelenwinter" and "Raune mit der Tiefe", but we recorded them only for us.
3. In the few reviews I have read of Gratr, and in my correspondence with other people who have heard the album and tried to describe it, references to other bands such as Enslaved, Ulver and Kampfar have been almost impossible to avoid. Did any of these bands play an active part in
influencing your music?
Definately. We are influenced by the old norwegian school, the really great norwegian Black Metal ī90-ī95. These bands are our idols. We are listening to different kinds of metal and other music, but no other music touches us as deep as these masters of blackness and frost. From the start we agreed that it should turn out in this way.
4. I see that you use several languages in Gratr. Can you speak a little about this, the intentions you've had in taking this approach? In terms of sound, enunciation and so on, is there a benefit, you think, in experimenting with various languages?
I use german because it is my mother tongue and it gives me the opportunity to play on words like no other language can. Additional I use old-norse and norwegian for different reasons. The use of old-norse depends on the spiritual background: We have the greatest stock for the old northern pagan belief in old-icelandic and old-norwegian sources, therefore I need this language to work as close as possible to the spiritual and historical reality. I also use old northern rhyme-schemes like eddic or scaldic verse, but then in german, to get closer to the spiritual past. On the other hand, old-norse has a very atmospheric, mysterious sound when it is pronounced. It is not neccessary for the listener to actually understand what I sing, the language itself transports atmosphere. Itīs the same with norwegian. This is a modern language but it developed from the old-norse, so it works as a mediator between old norse and german, to create a bridge between times, languages and cultures. All the three languages are also related with each other, it gives the opportunity to play on words. The use of norwegian can also be seen as a tribute to the norwegian bands.
Apart from that, I simply like old languages, also old and middle german, gothic and anglosaxon. If you listen to them they transport you back far in time. Language and speech are a more important factor for life and perception than most people think... for humans, things come to existence when they are named. And a lot of the perception of reality depends on how things are named. As Martin Heidegger said: "The language is the house of being. In this house man lives.". Very true.
5. How did you get in touch with Prophecy, did you send them a copy of the album and they responded to you, or vice versa? As little as I think of labels in general, I personally believe that it is a great honor to be featured on such a high quality organization such as Prophecy. You must
have been very pleased to get the offer?
Actually we just had an interview with the german "Mörkeske"-fanzine, a very special fanzine that I like very much. As I got a positive respond from Thor Wanzek, the chief editor of this mag, I was already happy that a person who edits such a fine magazine likes our art... well, in the interview he asked us if we are interested in a label deal, and if yes, with which label. Prophecy was the only label that I could imagine, so I said "...a label whose name starts with P, and that releases lots of fine Neofolk and Metal and which resides in Zeltingen-Rachtig...". I had no idea that Thor works as a freelancer for Prophecy Productions. He simply send our cd to Martin, and Martin liked us. A short time later we got the offer. We couldnīt believe it, and yes, it is a great honour to be signed with Prophecy, I agree.
6. Doing some research on the name of the band, I've discovered that Helrunar is the title for one who "runes" or makes rune magic. Runes themselves derive from the pagans and Germans who built stone circles, long barrows and dolmens throughout ancient Europe. Accordingly, there are
arcane and 'secret' techniques surrounding this magic. Are runes something that interest you and other members of the band? Do you have any belief in this rune 'magic', or is it primarily an intellectual, historical interest?
Yes, "Helrunar" is a word that Jan Fries created as the title for his book. This book is a great work on runemagic, I think itīs the best book you can get about this topic. He just did a mistake on the grammar... "Helrunar" is a plural in old-norse, actually it is a group of people who communicate with Hel by runes or in a similar way, it can also mean "the runes of Hel". I liked this book very much and the title is also great, so I suggested it to my friends to use it as a band name and they agreed. The old germanic belief is a very important factor in the concept of the band. My greatest interest is to work out the archetypes that are to be found in the mythology of the old north, and than using them to interpret even modern states of existence. These archetypes are such a deep part of the human soul that it still works, the myths still have value and the old gods are not dead if you want to regard it that way. Itīs the same with the runes... they are archetypical signs that stand for natural or human circumstances that donīt loose their validity, regardless of time, social structure or whatever. A myth is the purest form of the way that humans think and percept. It is the key to the human concious if you learn to interpret it. The magical value stands in correspondence to the psychological meaning. The place from which magical power arises is the deep human subsconcious. And runes and myths are gateways to the subsconcious. They speak an old, archaic language that the human subsconcious understands. The modern, logic way of thinking is not able to pass as deep. Myths, magic and art are three things that are far more connected than most people think... the first paintings, the first songs and poems are of magical character.
The stones circles, barrows and "dolmens" you mentioned are not made by the germans. They were erected by an older culture, called the Megalithic culture. They settled in northern europe long before the germans or celts are first metioned, about 5000-4000 b.C.. Actually, they are a part of the ancestors of the germans. They were firmly a spiritual, agricultural population who mainly worshipped gods of fertility. "Dolmens" symbolize the sky-god while "cairns", a kind of human-build caves, symbolize the womb of the earth-mother-goddes. Mythological symbols are also here to find, you see. About 1000-2000 years later came another population from the east, the indo-europeans. They were mainly nomads and warriors, with warrior-gods. After a war that probably occured (we canīt know this exactly, for at that time no written words existed) both cultures mixed and formed the new european inhabitants... celts, germans and all others. In the old-norse mythology you find two tribes of gods, the Asir and the Vanir. As they first meet, a war occurs. While the Vanir are firmly gods of fertility, the Asir are firmly gods of war and magic. After a short time the war ends and both tribes mix to work together from now on. Here the myth reflects historic reality.
Another example: You are of course familiar with the celtic Samhain-feast which is the pagan background for the modern Halloween. In the celtic mythology, Samhain is a feast dedicated to the ancestors, the dead that walk around in that night, the older ones that live beneath the ground. The celtic pagans gathered at the "cairns" at Samhain to celebrate this feast, to honour their ancestors. As we know, these ancestors originally build these "cairns", so the celts were conscious of their roots which founded in the Megalithic-culture. In the celtic mythology, the Megalithic culture survived as a folk of fairies and elves who live in the otherworld, and the "cairn" is a gate to this otherworld in the Samhain-night. The womb of mother earth were we all will return to when we die.
But I should come back to the question. Runes are of both interests for me- historical or intellectual, but also spiritual. Two poles exist in me, one is the scientist who just sees the historical background and who can find no proof that runes were ever used in an effective magical way, the other one is the spiritual seeker who believes in myths, old gods and runes... a conflict, they are arguing all the time...
Alsvartr and Dionysos are also interested in runes and myths, but not the way I am. I think, they donīt see any spiritual relevance in that stuff.
7. A question I have been asking other bands in this magazine is to describe to me their spirituality, their belief. To continue in this way, do you or the others in Helrunar consider yourselves religious individuals in any sense or form? Personally, I find it disconcerting that certain people have such a readiness to slap a title on themselves, fitting into some
convenient mold already shaped for them... but what is your opinion? Do you believe there is more to reality than what science, the limits of our human perceptions, can explain? Isn't the question itself slightly absurd?
I think I answered some aspects of this question already before. Somehow this question is absurd, yes, because if something like a "spiritual" reality exists, then it is far greater than a human being can understand. You see, it is already a very difficult thing for a member of the modern society to build up spiritual abilities or create a spiritual contact anyway. By the modern way of how to percept and think we lost a lot of this ability. For our ancestors with their archaic way of perception it was much easier. Today, thereīs so much rubbish in our heads that we canīt see the forest because of the trees. And the media and society feed this state of mind. My belief was formed by the things I read, the things I thought about and I experienced. I think, that all gods or whatever are merely symbols for aspectsof a greater spiritual reality that denies understanding. But by using these symbols we have the chance to interact with the "divine". I often say that I am Ásatrú, a term that defines a believer of the old northern gods. Actually my view of religion and spirituality cannot simply be described by this term, but somehow it fits. It is irrelevant which names or faces you project on the "divine". The important thing is that you think about it anyway. I chose the old northern belief, maybe just because I like it the most...
8. There is in fact little that I know of Skald Draugir the person, except of what I could glean simply by intuition, from your music, and your lyrics. Just out of curiosity now, what are some of your interests and activities outside of the band?
My main goal in life at the moment is to finish the university... but in the past few months the band consumed a lot of my time. Iīm studying Folklore, Northern languages and History. Of course I like the university very much... a lot of the things I learned there were also useful for the band. And I would miss the library of the northern institute because of the old-norse sources. Besides I earn some money working at a theatre. This job also influenced the band somehow, I am always in contact with modern poetry that flows into my lyrics. And itīs a place for interesting discussions, a possibility to find different points of view and new ways of thinking. Alsvartr also works there.
In my rare spare time I like to read, paint and play role-playing-games like D&D, tabletop-games and stuff like that.
9. Helrunar has played live in the recent past, is that correct?. Do you prefer playing live than rehearsing or recording in-studio? What have some of your experiences been like? Are there any artists out there with whom you would like to play with in the future?
I like playing live... AFTER the concert. Haha, really. Doing a live-gig is connected with so much efforts, Iīm also suffering by stage-fright very much... I really donīt like it before it is finished. All the concerts we played until now went great, so afterwards I was always very satisfied and happy. Itīs of course also great to talk to fans that liked your concert. A band I would definately like to play with are Enslaved for example.
Rehearsing is also all right, but the most satisfying thing is to record songs in the studio, to see how the whole stuff progresses, how the song gets better from take to take, more and more like you imagined. It far more strenuous than one might think, but I really like it.
10. Germany has such a relatively high amount of metal bands... and a number of them are quite good. In black metal especially, Germany has become today almost like the 'black metal capital of the world' after the dissolution of the Norwegian scene. What do you think? Do you keep track of what's going on in metal these days in Germany at all, or other countries for that matter?
All the releases, demos and so on done by german bands are no must-haves for me... of course, if you are part of a more or less known band you automatically stay tuned by trading demos with other bands who are interested. Lots of the german Black Metal bands are simply bad: bad-produced, emotionless, childish stuff that isnīt special or innovative anyway. But few bands are really great: Check Drautran, Eismalsott, Farsot, Secrets of the Moon and Klabautamann. There are even some more good bands from the german underground, but these are the best I think. I also got the impression Norway is on the way back... try newer bands like Lja , Myrkgrav, Audiopain or Elite. Theyīre quite good. Not as good as the old stuff but much better than lots of the rest.
If one likes Celtic Pagan Metal he should check bands from France- Aes Dana and Heol Telwen.
11. What are some of your most cherished bands, not just in black metal - but in any genre? Is it important to keep an open mind?
Yes, definately. I do not mean to be open minded in the way that the music industry wants you too. To be "open-minded" or "tolerant" according to music is a term that I first realized in the mid of the nineties. At that time they tried to sell all this Punk/HC/Crossover-shit to the metalfans, later even Hip-Hop. That was the thing here in germany, I donīt know if it was the same in the States. But it worked- from one day to another lots of metalfans started to consume all that stuff. I donīt know how they made it, but it worked. But not with me... I started to hate all that even more than before, haha... Therefore "tolerance" or "being open-minded" are terms that I still donīt really like, and if one asks me if I am open-minded, I will simply answer "No!". Unfortunately, often follows a discussion then: "Why are you not open minded?" "Why donīt you like this and that... blablabla...". Then I try to be as offensive as possible, to test if the person is really as tolerant as he or she thinks, haha. Great fun. Everybody can listen to anything he or she wants, but they shall not bother me with their suggestions.
But I should come back to the question, shouldnīt I? Apart from all sorts of metal I also like Neofolk a lot, medieval or traditional folk music, mostly scandinavian or celtic, also classical music and soundtracks, experimental music like Einstürzende Neubauten, 70ies New age electronics like Jean Michel Jarre or Klaus Schulze, a lot from the Gothic music sector... sometimes even Trip Hop. Great bands are the swedish Garmana, Portishead, Nevermore, the danish Krauka, Sephiroth, Tenhi, Forseti and Raison dīetre to name a few bands from different genres. By the way, have you ever heard from the danish "Othala"? They make great northern Neofolk, on their website you can download stuff that really touched me... but their demo seems to be sold out, at least they didnīt answer my mails...
To be "open-minded" somehow is neccessary for any musician. Otherwise your art would stagnate pretty quick. You would never be able to create something new and exciting.
12. I often read in interviews today of 'success', sales, the aspects of marketing, playing live in order to 'promote' an album, the 'careers' of an artist, label contracts, etc... when this does not interest me in the least, I will be honest with you! It's like, to these journalists, music is a
business first, and a form of art second, and they take the role of business promotion, public relations. What is bizarre to me is that underground magazines are as often to blame for taking this narrow approach as the corporate magazines whose fundamental task is to profit by their
entertainment - the key word: entertainment. As I know that we've talked before sporadically of magazines and of your appreciation for the German Moondance, I wonder if you notice this also? Music is certainly not a business venture for Helrunar, is it? Reaching some ideal sales figure and
gaining popularity or stardom is not terribly important to you, I think. So what is important for Helrunar then? Do you have a defined goal?
Regarding the fact that we now got a record deal are we also part of the business now... that is a fact you simply canīt avoid. As soon as you attract the attention of a larger group of people you are automatically a financial factor- for magazines, for labels and so on. Of course, we are lucky that Prophecy productions is our label, it could have become much worse... apart from that, making music is a kind of job you spend a lot of effords and time in. It is definately neccessary to get a little bit of money for it from time to time, by selling cdīs, merchandise or getting paid for playing live. Otherwise you will die of hunger pretty quick...
But becoming rich by playing extreme metal is of course not our goal. To be realistic, that isnīt possible at all.
So, what is our goal? An interesting question. What is the goal in general for people to play extreme music? I think the answer is more or less to find in the subsconcious... you see, something like the Black Metal movement or kind of art has never existed in these extremes before... it is the creation of the modern world. You need a certain kind of equipment to play this kind of music. You need a certain kind of mentality to write lyrics which are that extreme. And you need to share this extreme mentality with a larger group of people to get them interested in your art. Black Metal is a creation of the modern state of mind, but mixed with archaic, subsconcious elements.
The fundamental experience is simply that you are not satisfied with your existence in the modern world, the modern society. I donīt know if the most Black or Death Metal musicians realized that this is the reason why they make this kind of music. As already said, it often works subsconscious, and I made the experience that many musicians donīt reflect about this. A point that perfectly shows this state of mind is the element of cold, winter and frost in many Black Metal lyrics. It is a symbol for the emotional, spiritual winter they experience in the modern society. The element of violence in the lyrics reflects psychical violence they suffer. Often you find a longing for ancient times in there- they project their longing for sense and spirituality into a distant past which is a good background for imagination. And you find spiritualiy in the lyrics- be it pagan or satanic. This reflects the lack of spirituality and the longing for it. Somehow this whole Black- or Pagan Metal-thing and also the Neofolk-scene is a little bit like the romantic movement in the 19th century, although I said that something like Black Metal never existed before... but it is similar. It was an anti-movement to the industrialization, against the cold, disenchanted world of the machine. And today the world is even worse. Old bonds of society and familiy have been destroyed, nature is forced to retreat, the computer is the cold modern god.
And this indisposition is also our reason for making music... there is something that breeds inside: Pain, sorrow, anger. And if the pressure is getting too powerful it forces itīs way out. We simply have no other choice than to make music. Otherwise we would get mad or burn out or whatever. The modern world confronts us with a situation that we cannot simply tolerate. Against the dangerous and stupid modern materialism which is the greatest threat for mankind and nature we try to activate deep archaic feelings. We donīt need a certain crisis to create this, every idiot can have his crisis. That which brings us down is everyday life in this hollow society. The garbage gathered in the subsconcious by the process of living needs to be transfigured and decontaminated. Many people are familiar with the term that you need to destroy in order to create... less popular is the understanding that you also have to create in order to destroy.
Thatīs why we do it.
And if I can make people think about existence by the lyrics I write, Iīm even more satisfied.
13. Skald, it's been a pleasure. Let's end this interview on an unusual note... I think I was the first person from the United States to ask you for a copy of your CD. What is your opinion of this country in which I live? Do not hold back, my friend! Haha
Haha, this question isnīt as easy to be answered than one might expect. If I look upon a subject like this, I always try to regard many aspect and points of view. It is easy for a modern european to critizise the United states or simply curse it. Especcially the Bush-government gave the USA a very bad name in Germany... and during the last elections I sat in front of the TV the whole night to see if Carey makes it. In the end most germans thought "Oh my god, how can they be that stupid...?". My opinion about the United States is a variant one. Let us start with a historical example. The germans still owe the americans a lot, because they helped us to be liberated from the Third Reich. Many americans gave their lives in order to crush this regime. On the other hand, the american government didnīt do it because they are so philanthropic, but because they needed a shelter wall against communism in central europe. You find the same structures in modern times: On one hand, Iraq is liberated, on the other hand the USA established control of the great oil-resources and of a state in the near east. To spread democracy is a fine and honourable reason, but obviously it is never the only one for the USA to act in the world. This is the political side.
Let us talk about culture. Many germans think that americans are not more than stupid. This might be true, but I never was in the USA, so I cannot really judge about this point. However, many informations that reach us let me suppose that this is true... for example, if the teaching of the evolution theory is prohibited in some parts of the States this is not only stupid but dangerous... when I hear stuff like that a Bowie-song comes to my mind: "Iīm afraid of americans"... especcially of christian foundamentalists. Another example: If your membership in the football- or basketball- or whatever-team at your highschool is more important than your grades in english- or history-lessons something went terribly wrong. But all this might differ from state to state.
As far as I can see America is lacking of cultural identidy. The aspect of cultural or historical identity is replaced by capitalism. This development is a fatal one... for art, literature, history, philosophy, all the real important things in life, are useless for a society whose only longing is to consume. If you donīt confront yourself with the questions of your existence, the inner emptiness grows and grows and youīll have to consume more and more to hide it. But what happens at the end of the orgy? What is left when everything is availlable?
Of course, Iīm also familiar with the "consuming problem", wide parts of the european society are already "americanized", or better, materialized. I ask myself why it must happen this way. America offers a lot of interesting writers and artists. The culture of the indians is an interesting object if you want to take a look at a pagan belief. Possibilities to find an own cultural identity exist. The problem is that the other solution is a much easier one. If the society you live in just offers you the possibility to consume and supports just this aspect it is quite difficult to go the other way, because to think about your existence also means spending more efforts, even maybe finding some dark aspects and questions in your soul you donīt want to be confronted with. That is not just an american problem, but a problem of the whole western world. But in the USA it seems to be amplified.
The whole reality becomes a construct- Food is artificial, clothes are artificial, the place where you live becomes artificial, the media and commercials create an artificial reality, in the end your perception of yourself and the reality becomes artificial. You reach a point that is so far away from being human that you loose any chance to get the idea back, of what life is all about... and then you become a part of the emptiness, a tool for itīs masters who are itīs tool themselves. The emptiness has no laws, except for those who are part of the constructed, artificial reality.
Once laws founded in mankindīs understanding of the rules and processes of mother nature. And these laws are a part of the natural reality. They are order in a universe of chaos, both forces exist in harmony. If mankind looses the contact to the earth, just as it happens in the moment, the harmony is disturbed and maybe in the end destroyed. The consequence is the destruction of nature and mankind. One of the greatest mistakes of the USA is the terrifying way they are treating nature.
Maybe it depends on the pure scale of the continent- you simply donīt percept the decline of nature. In the same way the USA treat the souls of their people.
Yet america has a lot to offer. Good music, good literature, interesting points of view and more... and, yes, damn, I like the burgers at Burger King from time to time... you realize my conflict? For a european it is difficult to judge about it, for the american mentality is a different one and might contain a lot of aspects that we cannot see, but that does not mean that theyīre less important. Nevertheless I feel sorry for all more or less intellectual people who live there, I can imagine that it is often not easy... but to see that a magazine like yours exists in the USA is at least a glimpse of hope ;).
Well, thanks for this great and interesting interview, it was a pleasure for me to answer it!
Heill ok sall!
